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First time LR owner as of a week ago.
Detailed so it looked good.
Today all four O2 sensors, new tie rod, new steering rod,, new PS pump, new belt tensioner, two new idler pulleys, new belt, new plugs, and aligned the front end. So easy to work on these.
Some pics... The last three are of how I aligned the front. Clamped bars to rotors. Measured two equal points on each bar, from the same distance of the hub. Marked and the measured across from bar to bar. Went 3/16 toe out.
Did toe out. Not sure I have ever seen any car spec toe in, ... but ...
Drives great. so much better then it was, but thats mostly due to the bad rod ends it had.
Not sure what the red lines are representing, but you usually take measurements at the rear and front of the tire. Those marks you show are in the wrong locations for getting correct measurements, ones to close (just if front of hub) and ones to far (past bumper).
Another thing, were those rotors tight to the hub, if not, and they were loose on the hub...they would not give you a true reading. If loose, they would be flexing inward towards the front end....again...throwing off readings.
And yes, if adjustments/measurements are made while vehicle is on jack stands, the measurement will change slight when adding the weight of the vehicle. I usually make my finally adjustments when the vehicle is on the ground...or compensate by adding a 1/8 to toe-in before lowering vehicle.
I welcome the discussion. Maybe hard to explain here.
First, the rotors are part of the hubs. Not a floating rotor. Because of this you won't find a more exact spot to measure toe.
The bars are clamped to the rotors. The bars were checked for perfect straightness prior to use.
The markings on these bars are the same on each side, and are taken front the leading edge of the hub, so they are in the same location on each side. As long as these markings on the bars are identical to the center of the center of each hub, then it matters not how far away from the hub they are, ... as long as they are the same on each bar (side) . When measuring toe, the numbers are irrelevant. It's only the difference between the two numbers that matters., font red line to back red line (referring to the third alignment picture)
Wondering how toe would change when on the ground. I would think that if there were ANY change from jacked to full weighted that it would be time to change bearings, ball joints or rod ends. Where is the flex besides the tires, which are the most inaccurate place to take a toe measurement (though I know its the most common place for club racers at the track)
Anyway, exact numbers on Toe are not hugely important. Toe varies greatly (greatly being measured in 1/16s of and inch) with the slightest turn of the steering wheel due to castor and ackerman. As long as I am close to 1/8" out, I'm happy.
BUT... I am more of a independent suspension guy so if it's so different on solid axles then I'm here to listen.
Thanks
First...these are "knock off" rotors on a Dll...not part of the hub.
Second...I'm still not understanding your measurement positions. If you are taking a measurement out past the bumper...an 1/8 inch at that point...will be much different than at the position of the front of the tire. And the tire is what the steering and suspension has to go by, it's what meets the road.
It's like when you change tire sizes...if I'm running a 29 inch diameter tire and switch to a 31.5 diameter...I need to adjust toe. Since the leading edge of the larger tire has moved away from the center of hub farther, in theory. So, if toe is 1/8 for the 29 inch tire...it would be closer to 3/16 on the larger diameter tire. Toe in numbers will change as the distance increases from the hub.
If the fourth back-slash from the hub is the bumper and that measurement is 1/8 from one side to the other and the second back-slash is the front edge of the tire, then the measurement is going to be different. Because the two lines will eventually intersect as they diminish.
And yes, flex in the rim (weight added) is what causes the change in alignment slightly...but it is a factor that will be the same while driving straight down the road.
Anyhow, not trying to argue...just not getting the set up you're using.
Sorry, I was not clear on that point at all. I understand what you are saying and agree.
The drawing below shows what I am talking about. Measurement "A" is the same as if you were using Toe Plates to measure Toe. I just moved that distance out front. The numbers change but the difference stays the same anywhere along those lines as long as the distance "A" remains the same and that the blue lines are parallel to the front axle.
Grey blocks are front tires. Red lines if toe was 0. Orange lines if toe was not 0. In the drawing case the orange lines are toe in. Just an example.
And no, drawing is not to scale. Just a rough drawing.
Last edited by Greg Vasileff; 11-05-2017 at 08:46 AM.
My diagram wasn't to scale either...lol. Though mine would work well for Hotwheels.
Anyhow...
Somewhat see what you are doing. And as long as you are happy with results, that's all that matters. Were just taking different roads to the same location.
11-04-2017, 07:02 PM
