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Chasing the multiple misfires

Old Mar 25, 2025 | 10:26 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by ahab
It had not! I just found it though. I'll take a peek and let you know my thoughts.
Thanks!
 
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Old Mar 25, 2025 | 03:52 PM
  #52  
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Reluctor ring is on front side of flywheel (yes, mixed up flex plate terminology). Thanks for the photo. Where the CKP sensor stinger fits between the pins. Not easy to access, maybe peek up in there via inspection plate, or mirror through the CKP sensor hole. If the CKP is a Hall Effect sensor, signal quality can degrade at low speed, so potentially an issue, even though a long shot. This is where a high quality sensor can make a difference (e.g. NGK), and make sure it is installed with the correct spacer for correct insertion depth.

My understanding is a miss causes a slight change in rotational speed, that is detected by the CKP sensor (vs knock sensors), but maybe there is more to the internal ECM logic as Ahab mentions.

 
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Old Mar 25, 2025 | 05:34 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by JohnZo
Reluctor ring is on front side of flywheel (yes, mixed up flex plate terminology). Thanks for the photo. Where the CKP sensor stinger fits between the pins. Not easy to access, maybe peek up in there via inspection plate, or mirror through the CKP sensor hole. If the CKP is a Hall Effect sensor, signal quality can degrade at low speed, so potentially an issue, even though a long shot. This is where a high quality sensor can make a difference (e.g. NGK), and make sure it is installed with the correct spacer for correct insertion depth.

My understanding is a miss causes a slight change in rotational speed, that is detected by the CKP sensor (vs knock sensors), but maybe there is more to the internal ECM logic as Ahab mentions.
"and make sure it is installed with the correct spacer for correct insertion depth" This has been rattling around in the back of my head ever since I came across a post on this forum where a member claimed his multiple misfire issue was solved with a new CrankPS... Mine is a genuine LR part ($$$) that I bought new 2 years ago - with probably 12 months of accumulated run time. I did remove it a couple of weeks ago to ensure I installed it correctly and that there were no issues with the connector. The CPK comes with a sleeve/spacer and I believe it can only go in one way. I assembled as per the diagram and picture below. How can I tell if the stinger is deep enough into the reluctor groove in the flywheel - or not? Come to think of it, this is a primary difference between my old build and new - the block. The builder supplied me with a replacement block. Everything related to the CPK fitting in the replacement block seemed fine, but I am not sure about stinger depth - other than I know it is not too long and making contact with the bottom of the groove because I did not see any damage when I pulled it out.






 

Last edited by Tony Luna; Mar 25, 2025 at 06:58 PM.
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Old Mar 25, 2025 | 07:04 PM
  #54  
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The maf can make the engine sing lots of weird codes, not sure why but it does. No #6 is a clue, as is the fact it only does it hot. 98% chance it is ignition related. Coils still behind the engine ? Compresion/kocking is not a thing at idle with these engines at reasonable compression ratios and you can't get unreasonable without spending a lot of money. The 02's and fuel trims tell us it is not lean.

When I get these non-obvious problems I start by swapping known good with questionable components till we find the bad component. Given the obvious has been swapped (albeit new instead of known good, bringing in some room for error). The other weird thing these do is occasionally have a bad ECU. I have had two. Always good to have a spare set, if that seems excessive get a set off ebay and resell it when you are done testing.
 
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Old Mar 26, 2025 | 12:33 AM
  #55  
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CKP sensor spacers are different for manual vs automatic transmissions, according to interweb, manual are nearly 1/2 inch skinnier than autos. Older Rovers used skinny shims to adjust for a tiny 1 mm or 1.5 mm gap (between stinger and flywheel). Super hard to measure there, so they must have felt it just touch then back out one shim.

The sensor mounting disc (that fits to the block) is removeable on D1s, not sure about D2s. Maybe check the mountings are all seated completely in the new block, and right down the middle? We're talking tiny dimensions here, right on the borderline. Also some sensors signal quality will degrade more than others at low speed, even within a batch, and be effected more by dimensional mounting differences. So might make a difference with a different sensor. Did you reset adaptive values of the ECM? Have you measured alternator voltage at idle? Low voltage can cause weird codes too.

If all this stuff doesn't resolve the misfires, seems to me could still be the lope. That could be tested by installing a milder cam.... Not sure you really want to go there.
 

Last edited by JohnZo; Mar 26, 2025 at 12:54 AM. Reason: Low voltage
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Old Mar 26, 2025 | 09:03 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Extinct
The maf can make the engine sing lots of weird codes, not sure why but it does. No #6 is a clue, as is the fact it only does it hot. 98% chance it is ignition related. Coils still behind the engine ? Compresion/kocking is not a thing at idle with these engines at reasonable compression ratios and you can't get unreasonable without spending a lot of money. The 02's and fuel trims tell us it is not lean.

When I get these non-obvious problems I start by swapping known good with questionable components till we find the bad component. Given the obvious has been swapped (albeit new instead of known good, bringing in some room for error). The other weird thing these do is occasionally have a bad ECU. I have had two. Always good to have a spare set, if that seems excessive get a set off ebay and resell it when you are done testing.
Yes, coils are still behind the engine. And just because they are Bosch and 2 years old doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't fail, but 2 at the same time? The increase in compression is minor, otherwise I think I'd have more issues with knocking.

I don't have known good components - except for maybe a CrankPS that was in the truck for about 6 years before the first build.

The builder is sending me a loaner ECU to try.

For now, I added a bottle of octane boost to see if it makes any difference. Suspect I'll have to get down to 1/2 or 3/4 of a tank before seeing any possible effect from this. I have a few more bottles to keep going if results are favorable.

Thanks for all the help.
 

Last edited by Tony Luna; Mar 26, 2025 at 09:09 AM.
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Old Mar 26, 2025 | 10:50 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by JohnZo
CKP sensor spacers are different for manual vs automatic transmissions, according to interweb, manual are nearly 1/2 inch skinnier than autos. Older Rovers used skinny shims to adjust for a tiny 1 mm or 1.5 mm gap (between stinger and flywheel). Super hard to measure there, so they must have felt it just touch then back out one shim.

The sensor mounting disc (that fits to the block) is removeable on D1s, not sure about D2s. Maybe check the mountings are all seated completely in the new block, and right down the middle? We're talking tiny dimensions here, right on the borderline. Also some sensors signal quality will degrade more than others at low speed, even within a batch, and be effected more by dimensional mounting differences. So might make a difference with a different sensor. Did you reset adaptive values of the ECM? Have you measured alternator voltage at idle? Low voltage can cause weird codes too.

If all this stuff doesn't resolve the misfires, seems to me could still be the lope. That could be tested by installing a milder cam.... Not sure you really want to go there.
Thanks!

I'll insert my spinning head emoji here...

In all seriousness, THANK YOU all for sharing your knowledge, advice, and time on this. I'm not going to give up as I am WAY beyond the point of no return on this rig and all common sense when it comes to this money pit flew out the window some time ago.

I'll have to do some research to figure out optimal CPK probe depth/positioning. May even put a new one in while I'm at it. In the meantime, I'll see if the octane boost makes any difference - never too late for Occam's razor to kick in...

How do I reset the adaptive values of the ECM?

Alternator voltage is over 14V. New battery too.

If it ends up being the cam, I'll live with it.

Not bad for 299K. Under hood/carriage and interior look better than exterior.

 

Last edited by Tony Luna; Mar 26, 2025 at 10:52 AM.
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Old Mar 26, 2025 | 10:59 AM
  #58  
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The truck looks great, I love the Westminster wheels. You'll need a nanocom or similar to reset adaptive values, although I don't think you need to go that far up the food chain.
 
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Old Mar 26, 2025 | 11:03 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by ahab
The truck looks great, I love the Westminster wheels. You'll need a nanocom or similar to reset adaptive values, although I don't think you need to go that far up the food chain.
@Tony Luna if you need to borrow a Nanocom LMK and next time I’m by your place I can drop it by.
 
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Old Mar 26, 2025 | 11:12 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by ahab
The truck looks great, I love the Westminster wheels. You'll need a nanocom or similar to reset adaptive values, although I don't think you need to go that far up the food chain.
Thanks! The wheels were a Pick n Pull score.

I'll keep the Nanocom idea simmering.
 
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